Comments for The Long Now Blog http://blog.longnow.org The Official Weblog of The Long Now Foundation and Friends Thu, 21 Aug 2008 20:27:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.3 Comment on Neal Stephenson - King of the Worlds by Neal Stephenson Returns | Off Hours http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/19/neal-stephenson-king-of-the-worlds/#comment-5232 Neal Stephenson Returns | Off Hours Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:47:30 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/19/neal-stephenson-king-of-the-worlds/#comment-5232 [...] focuses on an alternative universe, so it will be new territory for Stephenson. I’m sure it will fulfill many geek dreams. But before I embark in this new world, I may have to wait to see what the NY Times says first. [...] […] focuses on an alternative universe, so it will be new territory for Stephenson. I’m sure it will fulfill many geek dreams. But before I embark in this new world, I may have to wait to see what the NY Times says first. […]

]]> Comment on Edward Burtynsky, “The 10,000-year Gallery” by Kevin Kihn http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/24/edward-burtynsky-the-10000-year-gallery/#comment-5217 Kevin Kihn Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:51:38 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/24/edward-burtynsky-the-10000-year-gallery/#comment-5217 What about *transparent* colors? I get the impression that carbon transfer prints as well as the photoceramic prints described in Roger Baker's post are intended for opaque fields of color on an opaque ground. But suppose an artist wants to create an image with the transparent luminosity of stained glass, to be backlit, yet also possessing a highly controlled and subtle tonal range, as in a painting or a photograph? Mr. Baker describes pigment being laid on a base of black glass, then covered with transparent glass which is fused by slumping onto the image and said base. Would it be possible to use the same process, but sandwich the image between two layers of transparent glass, and producing it in transparent or translucent colors? Permanence being a sine qua non. A separate question: in another post I suggested the possibility of archiving the contents of the great museums of the world, meaning works of visual art. Is this idea in contemplation for the Long Now project? Returning to image permanence: I have read that Egyptian wall murals which have endured for thousands of years are painted in watercolor, and that you can easily damage one by dragging a wet finger across a tomb wall. I suppose the colors are probably derived from mineral sources, and hence non-biodegradable. I also distinctly remember seeing a photo in an art book of an ancient Greek drawing done on a slab of marble. I'm not sure of the drawing medium - possibly charcoal? As in the caves at Lascaux. What about *transparent* colors? I get the impression that carbon transfer prints as well as the photoceramic prints described in Roger Baker’s post are intended for opaque fields of color on an opaque ground. But suppose an artist wants to create an image with the transparent luminosity of stained glass, to be backlit, yet also possessing a highly controlled and subtle tonal range, as in a painting or a photograph? Mr. Baker describes pigment being laid on a base of black glass, then covered with transparent glass which is fused by slumping onto the image and said base. Would it be possible to use the same process, but sandwich the image between two layers of transparent glass, and producing it in transparent or translucent colors? Permanence being a sine qua non.

A separate question: in another post I suggested the possibility of archiving the contents of the great museums of the world, meaning works of visual art. Is this idea in contemplation for the Long Now project?

Returning to image permanence: I have read that Egyptian wall murals which have endured for thousands of years are painted in watercolor, and that you can easily damage one by dragging a wet finger across a tomb wall. I suppose the colors are probably derived from mineral sources, and hence non-biodegradable. I also distinctly remember seeing a photo in an art book of an ancient Greek drawing done on a slab of marble. I’m not sure of the drawing medium - possibly charcoal? As in the caves at Lascaux.

]]> Comment on Be sure to read the fine print! by Kim http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/20/be-sure-to-read-the-fine-print/#comment-5216 Kim Thu, 21 Aug 2008 04:01:06 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/20/be-sure-to-read-the-fine-print/#comment-5216 Well, reasonably, one could argue that the next bit of fine print should be along the lines of "here's how to copy the Rosetta Disk information." Various ways of making paper, inks, printing presses, engraving, photographic reproductions, etc. (i.e. encourage/facilitate making lots of copies.) In some ways, an idealized version of the Rosetta Disk would be in essence a printing plate/stamp -- that in order to fully read it, one would have to ink and stamp the information onto something else, so that more copies would be made. Well, reasonably, one could argue that the next bit of fine print should be along the lines of “here’s how to copy the Rosetta Disk information.” Various ways of making paper, inks, printing presses, engraving, photographic reproductions, etc. (i.e. encourage/facilitate making lots of copies.)

In some ways, an idealized version of the Rosetta Disk would be in essence a printing plate/stamp — that in order to fully read it, one would have to ink and stamp the information onto something else, so that more copies would be made.

]]> Comment on Very Long-Term Backup by Kevin Kihn http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/20/very-long-term-backup/#comment-5215 Kevin Kihn Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:53:58 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/20/very-long-term-backup/#comment-5215 This is fascinating. Obviously it's conceivable entire libraries could be permanently archived using this technology. I'd like to see something similar done with respect to creating permanent archives recording visual artistic treasures of the world in a highly compact and durable form. For instance, I gather research is currently being done to create holographic information storage in artificially generated crystal latticeworks, which presumably are quite permanent. I've come across abstracts concerning this subject online. Such might constitute a remarkable artistic medium. I hope to learn more concerning this and Norsam's technology in future. This is fascinating. Obviously it’s conceivable entire libraries could be permanently archived using this technology. I’d like to see something similar done with respect to creating permanent archives recording visual artistic treasures of the world in a highly compact and durable form. For instance, I gather research is currently being done to create holographic information storage in artificially generated crystal latticeworks, which presumably are quite permanent. I’ve come across abstracts concerning this subject online. Such might constitute a remarkable artistic medium. I hope to learn more concerning this and Norsam’s technology in future.

]]> Comment on Very Long-Term Backup by Rick http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/20/very-long-term-backup/#comment-5214 Rick Thu, 21 Aug 2008 03:02:53 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/20/very-long-term-backup/#comment-5214 I've been watching this project from the beginning. When do you estimate the disks will be commonly available at a pricepoint affordable to the masses? I’ve been watching this project from the beginning. When do you estimate the disks will be commonly available at a pricepoint affordable to the masses?

]]> Comment on Generational Theater by Jon Kawa http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5201 Jon Kawa Wed, 20 Aug 2008 04:17:40 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5201 I never considered it quite that way before. Oberammergau has definite overtones of Daniel Quinn's <a>Beyond Civilization</a>. Humans lived sustainably for untold eons under tribal models before farming, modernization, and "civilization" took root. While no one's much interested in going back, Oberammergau demonstrates it's possible to benefit from both ways of organizing and that, perhaps, happiness and longevity arise more often under tribal-style activities. I never considered it quite that way before. Oberammergau has definite overtones of Daniel Quinn’s Beyond Civilization. Humans lived sustainably for untold eons under tribal models before farming, modernization, and “civilization” took root. While no one’s much interested in going back, Oberammergau demonstrates it’s possible to benefit from both ways of organizing and that, perhaps, happiness and longevity arise more often under tribal-style activities.

]]> Comment on Anathem and Long Now by www.thistledown.org » clock of the long now http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/21/anathem-and-long-now/#comment-5200 www.thistledown.org » clock of the long now Wed, 20 Aug 2008 03:33:31 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/21/anathem-and-long-now/#comment-5200 [...] http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/21/anathem-and-long-now/ [...] […] http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/21/anathem-and-long-now/ […]

]]> Comment on Edward Burtynsky, “The 10,000-year Gallery” by Ed Burtynsky: A Time Capsule for Photography | View on Canadian Art http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/24/edward-burtynsky-the-10000-year-gallery/#comment-5198 Ed Burtynsky: A Time Capsule for Photography | View on Canadian Art Wed, 20 Aug 2008 01:48:44 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/24/edward-burtynsky-the-10000-year-gallery/#comment-5198 [...] was trawling other art blogs looking for Canadian-related content when we found THIS article, courtesy of Tyler Green’s Modern Art Notes - see our blogroll on the [...] […] was trawling other art blogs looking for Canadian-related content when we found THIS article, courtesy of Tyler Green’s Modern Art Notes - see our blogroll on the […]

]]> Comment on Daniel Suarez, “Daemon: Bot-Mediated Reality” by Benjamin Kudria http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/19/daniel-suarez-daemon-bot-mediated-reality/#comment-5186 Benjamin Kudria Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:18:46 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/19/daniel-suarez-daemon-bot-mediated-reality/#comment-5186 These 'bots' you speak of? The ones calculating our FICA scores? The ones connecting our calls? They are conventionally called programs. Calling them 'bots' misleadingly grants them autonomy. Programs don't "roam" on their own, they don't evolve, and to call them (even narrow) AI is completely wrong - unless you want to define intelligence as "doing what you have been programmed to do". In that case, my laptop, my phone, and my MP3 player are intelligent. Narrow AI, much less general AI as required by your bots, is still a fair bit away. This doesn't address your concerns, however, applied to buggy or mis-designed programs, instead of bots - those are still valid. The solutions, however, is not to dream up some magical "human-only internet" (how would such a thing be enforced, anyway? See: Turing Test). Enlisting the "aid" of "bots" (programs) doesn't make any sense in today's world. What we can (and should) focus on is writing and auditing our programs and systems to avoid errors and handle unexpected situations gracefully. This is the realistic option. Finally, we can build in emergency procedures that are less destructive than simply pulling the plug. There are real issues around quality control, safety procedures, and emergency situations with our computer systems, but coloring them as a distributed and unmanageable plot by a bunch of self-aware "bots" to eliminate those pesky humans is unhelpful and irresponsible. These ‘bots’ you speak of? The ones calculating our FICA scores? The ones connecting our calls? They are conventionally called programs. Calling them ‘bots’ misleadingly grants them autonomy. Programs don’t “roam” on their own, they don’t evolve, and to call them (even narrow) AI is completely wrong - unless you want to define intelligence as “doing what you have been programmed to do”. In that case, my laptop, my phone, and my MP3 player are intelligent. Narrow AI, much less general AI as required by your bots, is still a fair bit away.

This doesn’t address your concerns, however, applied to buggy or mis-designed programs, instead of bots - those are still valid. The solutions, however, is not to dream up some magical “human-only internet” (how would such a thing be enforced, anyway? See: Turing Test). Enlisting the “aid” of “bots” (programs) doesn’t make any sense in today’s world.

What we can (and should) focus on is writing and auditing our programs and systems to avoid errors and handle unexpected situations gracefully. This is the realistic option. Finally, we can build in emergency procedures that are less destructive than simply pulling the plug.

There are real issues around quality control, safety procedures, and emergency situations with our computer systems, but coloring them as a distributed and unmanageable plot by a bunch of self-aware “bots” to eliminate those pesky humans is unhelpful and irresponsible.

]]> Comment on Generational Theater by R.R. http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5168 R.R. Mon, 18 Aug 2008 09:45:47 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5168 Very interesting letter.... I've been to Oberammergau many times, never for the Passionsspiele though. I'm wondering whether Eno might get to work with Stückl (who is the director-in-residence at Munich's Volkstheater). Very interesting letter…. I’ve been to Oberammergau many times, never for the Passionsspiele though.
I’m wondering whether Eno might get to work with Stückl (who is the director-in-residence at Munich’s Volkstheater).

]]> Comment on Generational Theater by charlie http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5167 charlie Mon, 18 Aug 2008 07:02:35 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5167 I wonder what activities we start today will turn into traditions of tomorrow. Or, can such a long-trend pledge ever be done again? I wonder what activities we start today will turn into traditions of tomorrow. Or, can such a long-trend pledge ever be done again?

]]> Comment on Generational Theater by chiel http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5148 chiel Sat, 16 Aug 2008 20:42:38 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5148 this is really incredible. and coooooool...... we're not lost! this is really incredible. and coooooool…… we’re not lost!

]]> Comment on Generational Theater by Ed http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5141 Ed Fri, 15 Aug 2008 22:45:28 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/08/11/generational-theater/#comment-5141 In the Tirolean village of Thaur, they have a festival/parade every four years called Mullerlaufen, or the running of the mullers. There are strange dances and people dressed as pine trees and other kinds of woodland creatures. I think it's interesting because many of the traditions date back hundreds of years, but I understand that the festival was dropped for a while before being revived in recent years; perhaps a result of the tourist industry. But it's also resulting in the continuation of these ritualistic practices that appear to date back to Celtic and pre-Christian practices. photos here: http://www.uibk.ac.at/volkskunde/infoservice/mullerlaufen.html It's also worth mentioning the Krampuslaufen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus#Krampus In the Tirolean village of Thaur, they have a festival/parade every four years called Mullerlaufen, or the running of the mullers. There are strange dances and people dressed as pine trees and other kinds of woodland creatures. I think it’s interesting because many of the traditions date back hundreds of years, but I understand that the festival was dropped for a while before being revived in recent years; perhaps a result of the tourist industry. But it’s also resulting in the continuation of these ritualistic practices that appear to date back to Celtic and pre-Christian practices.

photos here:
http://www.uibk.ac.at/volkskunde/infoservice/mullerlaufen.html

It’s also worth mentioning the Krampuslaufen:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus#Krampus

]]> Comment on Avatar Afterlife by Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » The Avatar Afterlife http://blog.longnow.org/2007/10/12/avatar-afterlife/#comment-5137 Dusan Writer’s Metaverse » The Avatar Afterlife Fri, 15 Aug 2008 16:30:36 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2007/10/12/avatar-afterlife/#comment-5137 [...] Long Now Foundation posts speculation that our avatars will soon be programmed with our online preferences, leading to an afterlife for [...] […] Long Now Foundation posts speculation that our avatars will soon be programmed with our online preferences, leading to an afterlife for […]

]]> Comment on Hillis and Kelly on Information Overload by The Phaneron http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/28/hillis-and-kelly-on-information-overload/#comment-5131 The Phaneron Fri, 15 Aug 2008 09:49:54 +0000 http://blog.longnow.org/2008/07/28/hillis-and-kelly-on-information-overload/#comment-5131 <strong>Signs of the Singularity and Why Chris Anderson and Nicholas Carr Won\'t Make the Next Cut...</strong> I noticed a similarity recently in posts from Chris Anderson and Nicholas Carr. Over the past few months both of these widely read authors published a thought provoking post that calls into question humanity\'s stewardship of knowledge in today\'s ... Signs of the Singularity and Why Chris Anderson and Nicholas Carr Won\’t Make the Next Cut…

I noticed a similarity recently in posts from Chris Anderson and Nicholas Carr. Over the past few months both of these widely read authors published a thought provoking post that calls into question humanity\’s stewardship of knowledge in today\’s …

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